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	<title>Comments for Software Debugged</title>
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	<description>Computing, software and the internet</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 16:05:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on Double Dispatch Pattern by Alan</title>
		<link>http://www.softwaredebugged.com/software-patterns/double-dispatch-pattern#comment-110</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 13:11:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.softwaredebugged.com/software-patterns/double-dispatch-pattern#comment-110</guid>
		<description>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_dispatch</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_dispatch" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_dispatch</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Technical Debt by Alan</title>
		<link>http://www.softwaredebugged.com/software-development/technical-debt#comment-72</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Mar 2009 13:24:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.softwaredebugged.com/software-development/technical-debt#comment-72</guid>
		<description>On the "usefulness" of this:

/1/ "The metaphor also explains why it may be sensible to do the quick and dirty approach."

/2/ "you only make money on your loan by delivering"

    http://www.martinfowler.com/bliki/TechnicalDebt.html

Also, on a different stream of thought, look at the comments about making the debt explicit:

    http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?TechnicalDebt</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the &#8220;usefulness&#8221; of this:</p>
<p>/1/ &#8220;The metaphor also explains why it may be sensible to do the quick and dirty approach.&#8221;</p>
<p>/2/ &#8220;you only make money on your loan by delivering&#8221;</p>
<p>    <a href="http://www.martinfowler.com/bliki/TechnicalDebt.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.martinfowler.com/bliki/TechnicalDebt.html</a></p>
<p>Also, on a different stream of thought, look at the comments about making the debt explicit:</p>
<p>    <a href="http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?TechnicalDebt" rel="nofollow">http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?TechnicalDebt</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Technical Debt by MarkR</title>
		<link>http://www.softwaredebugged.com/software-development/technical-debt#comment-71</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Mar 2009 12:57:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.softwaredebugged.com/software-development/technical-debt#comment-71</guid>
		<description>Alan,

Thanks for your comment - an interesting observation as usual. Note that I've delayed replying because I wanted to mull this over a little before posting a response.

Yes, you're right, I didn't make this very clear. I have to admit this was because I didn't think it was useful to take the metaphor as far as you suggest. That is to say, I wouldn't have regarded it as useful to think of a solution as incurring a technical debt unless there was a need to "settle up" promptly – normally, on the phase of development for the next release.

However, now I'm not so sure. I think a more fundamental way of looking at your point is this: any incurred technical debt, regardless of its size or the form it takes, needs representation in the risk register for the business (and not just for the project); this is the starting point for determining the consequent action to be taken.

I think this topic is worth a follow-up post, but I'll have to think about it some more first.

- Mark.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alan,</p>
<p>Thanks for your comment - an interesting observation as usual. Note that I&#8217;ve delayed replying because I wanted to mull this over a little before posting a response.</p>
<p>Yes, you&#8217;re right, I didn&#8217;t make this very clear. I have to admit this was because I didn&#8217;t think it was useful to take the metaphor as far as you suggest. That is to say, I wouldn&#8217;t have regarded it as useful to think of a solution as incurring a technical debt unless there was a need to &#8220;settle up&#8221; promptly – normally, on the phase of development for the next release.</p>
<p>However, now I&#8217;m not so sure. I think a more fundamental way of looking at your point is this: any incurred technical debt, regardless of its size or the form it takes, needs representation in the risk register for the business (and not just for the project); this is the starting point for determining the consequent action to be taken.</p>
<p>I think this topic is worth a follow-up post, but I&#8217;ll have to think about it some more first.</p>
<p>- Mark.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Technical Debt by Alan</title>
		<link>http://www.softwaredebugged.com/software-development/technical-debt#comment-70</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 12:39:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.softwaredebugged.com/software-development/technical-debt#comment-70</guid>
		<description>Mark,

you fail to make the main point of the "Technical Debt" metaphore clear.

This is that developers are wrong to assume that "time must be made factored into the development schedule ... reworked with more enduring solutions".

Consider a debt that many of us are familar with - a mortgage.  When planning the next month's finances very few of us factor in repaying the mortgage.  What we do factor in is the cost of servicing the debt.  Other debts are more expensive and we chose to pay them off immediately.

Applying the "Technical Debt" metaphore to software development makes it apparent that we have a range of options - if the cost is high (a credit card) we can pay the debt off rapidly, if it is lower (a tracker mortgage) then we can get better returns by investing our efforts elsewhere.

The choice between such options is a management issue - developers can help identify the debt and the costs of either servicing or repaying it.  But it is a management decision which approach benefits the business most.

Alan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark,</p>
<p>you fail to make the main point of the &#8220;Technical Debt&#8221; metaphore clear.</p>
<p>This is that developers are wrong to assume that &#8220;time must be made factored into the development schedule &#8230; reworked with more enduring solutions&#8221;.</p>
<p>Consider a debt that many of us are familar with - a mortgage.  When planning the next month&#8217;s finances very few of us factor in repaying the mortgage.  What we do factor in is the cost of servicing the debt.  Other debts are more expensive and we chose to pay them off immediately.</p>
<p>Applying the &#8220;Technical Debt&#8221; metaphore to software development makes it apparent that we have a range of options - if the cost is high (a credit card) we can pay the debt off rapidly, if it is lower (a tracker mortgage) then we can get better returns by investing our efforts elsewhere.</p>
<p>The choice between such options is a management issue - developers can help identify the debt and the costs of either servicing or repaying it.  But it is a management decision which approach benefits the business most.</p>
<p>Alan</p>
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		<title>Comment on Unit Test Frameworks by Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.softwaredebugged.com/software-development/unit-test-frameworks#comment-47</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 14:05:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.softwaredebugged.com/software-development/unit-test-frameworks#comment-47</guid>
		<description>In a mixed C++ (or C) with .NET then I've found using NUnit for testing everything that is public works pretty well - especially if you have to test COM API's.  Consistency across the unit test results and software you need to install is a big benefit, especially if the code will eventually be called from .NET.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a mixed C++ (or C) with .NET then I&#8217;ve found using NUnit for testing everything that is public works pretty well - especially if you have to test COM API&#8217;s.  Consistency across the unit test results and software you need to install is a big benefit, especially if the code will eventually be called from .NET.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Unit Test Frameworks by MarkR</title>
		<link>http://www.softwaredebugged.com/software-development/unit-test-frameworks#comment-46</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 10:16:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.softwaredebugged.com/software-development/unit-test-frameworks#comment-46</guid>
		<description>Alan,

[I assume you posted an off-topic comment because there was no logical place to post it, and no contact page for for sending me messages in general - I've now fixed this, you many notice a contact option has appeared on the main menue!]

Unfortunately my Java knowledge is very rusty, and my understanding of the throw spec issues in Java is pretty much nebulous :-)

C++ however - as you (Alan) know - is a very different matter! Thanks for the suggestion. It may be a few days before the article appears, but I'll start work on it!

  - Mark.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alan,</p>
<p>[I assume you posted an off-topic comment because there was no logical place to post it, and no contact page for for sending me messages in general - I've now fixed this, you many notice a contact option has appeared on the main menue!]</p>
<p>Unfortunately my Java knowledge is very rusty, and my understanding of the throw spec issues in Java is pretty much nebulous <img src='http://www.softwaredebugged.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>C++ however - as you (Alan) know - is a very different matter! Thanks for the suggestion. It may be a few days before the article appears, but I&#8217;ll start work on it!</p>
<p>  - Mark.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Unit Test Frameworks by Alan</title>
		<link>http://www.softwaredebugged.com/software-development/unit-test-frameworks#comment-45</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 10:05:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.softwaredebugged.com/software-development/unit-test-frameworks#comment-45</guid>
		<description>[No worries about the delay - I wasn't even sure you'd approve my comment as being on topic for this article.]

Throw specifications in C++ and exception specifications in Java are very different beasts and treating them in the same article would only have value if the purpose were to explain the differences.  That has been done.

In terms of utility I don't know of anyone that would argue the C++ version is anything other than a failed experiement.  In Java the case is less clear as there are some benefits.  (Although it is telling that no comparable, subsequent language has adopted this approach.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[No worries about the delay - I wasn't even sure you'd approve my comment as being on topic for this article.]</p>
<p>Throw specifications in C++ and exception specifications in Java are very different beasts and treating them in the same article would only have value if the purpose were to explain the differences.  That has been done.</p>
<p>In terms of utility I don&#8217;t know of anyone that would argue the C++ version is anything other than a failed experiement.  In Java the case is less clear as there are some benefits.  (Although it is telling that no comparable, subsequent language has adopted this approach.)</p>
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		<title>Comment on Unit Test Frameworks by MarkR</title>
		<link>http://www.softwaredebugged.com/software-development/unit-test-frameworks#comment-44</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Feb 2009 09:30:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.softwaredebugged.com/software-development/unit-test-frameworks#comment-44</guid>
		<description>Alan,

Sorry about the delay in responding, and yes that is more than a little worrying!

I see your code base is C++. Are you suggesting an article about throw specs in C++ or are you suggesing one that includes Java?

  - Mark.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alan,</p>
<p>Sorry about the delay in responding, and yes that is more than a little worrying!</p>
<p>I see your code base is C++. Are you suggesting an article about throw specs in C++ or are you suggesing one that includes Java?</p>
<p>  - Mark.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Unit Test Frameworks by Alan</title>
		<link>http://www.softwaredebugged.com/software-development/unit-test-frameworks#comment-42</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 16:47:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.softwaredebugged.com/software-development/unit-test-frameworks#comment-42</guid>
		<description>Hi Mark - maybe an idea for your next post.  I've just run into a codebase with a disturbing metric...

grep "throw[^[:graph:]]*([^)]" `find -name \*.cpp -or  -name \*.h` &#124; wc -l
    222

How about writing "The Only Good throw spec is an Empty One"?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Mark - maybe an idea for your next post.  I&#8217;ve just run into a codebase with a disturbing metric&#8230;</p>
<p>grep &#8220;throw[^[:graph:]]*([^)]&#8221; `find -name \*.cpp -or  -name \*.h` | wc -l<br />
    222</p>
<p>How about writing &#8220;The Only Good throw spec is an Empty One&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Unit Test Frameworks by MarkR</title>
		<link>http://www.softwaredebugged.com/software-development/unit-test-frameworks#comment-41</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 11:26:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.softwaredebugged.com/software-development/unit-test-frameworks#comment-41</guid>
		<description>Alan,

Thanks for pointing out these things. I didn't know about JUnit being inspired by SUnit. Actually I hadn't heard of SUnit until your comment. I assumed Smalltalkers would have a unit test framework, so I probably should have looked it up and included it in the above article - I'll append an update with a link to it.

Re your comment that JUnit "doesn’t fit well with Java idioms". I don't know much about Java, but that did surprise me! Could you elaborate a little if/when you get chance? In what way is/was JUnit counter-idiomatic in Java, and how could it work such that it does fit with Java idioms?


        - Mark.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alan,</p>
<p>Thanks for pointing out these things. I didn&#8217;t know about JUnit being inspired by SUnit. Actually I hadn&#8217;t heard of SUnit until your comment. I assumed Smalltalkers would have a unit test framework, so I probably should have looked it up and included it in the above article - I&#8217;ll append an update with a link to it.</p>
<p>Re your comment that JUnit &#8220;doesn’t fit well with Java idioms&#8221;. I don&#8217;t know much about Java, but that did surprise me! Could you elaborate a little if/when you get chance? In what way is/was JUnit counter-idiomatic in Java, and how could it work such that it does fit with Java idioms?</p>
<p>        - Mark.</p>
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